Quoth Billy Beck:

"Look, Thomas: a value chosen in the last extremity is *still* a value."

Thank you for establishing that you don't understand what values are. Values are those things which one acts to defend -- not necessarily the means by which one might be forced to defend them.

"I told you in e-mail a couple of weeks ago that you're not accounting for the nature of values. You went out like a light"

Suffice it to say that my recollection of the exchange materially differs from yours.

"that your notion (which is all it is: it's not an actual concept) of 'cooperative socialism'"

I don't believe I've ever in my life used the term "cooperative socialism." I don't know if your uncle's plumbing business is a worker-owned cooperative (i.e. a voluntaryistic socialist enterprise) or not.

"What all this tells me is that you are not -- at the moment -- approachable with reason. Facts don't matter to you ..."

To my ear, this sounds a lot like: "Screw rational definition and objective reality -- the true criterion of what things are is what Billy Beck wishes they were, dammit." [sound of foot stomping]

... but I'm willing to consider the possibility that I'm mistaken.

I'm more than willing to debate anything you care to debate, but little fencing matches on cherry-picked bits via email and blog comment areas probably isn't the best way. Care to suggest a non-changing proposition and a reasonably accessible format?

Regards,
Tom