Sparking More Thoughts on Love and Freedom

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Originally, the bit about change in the quote I posted yesterday caught my attention ... but later, thinking about it more, the “love the people who treat you right” phrase started tickling my brain. And it still hasn’t stopped.

I have been very fortunate in my life, in that I have shared a lot of love with many individuals special to me. Only a small part of that is sensual and/or sexual love, yet sometimes concerns arising from those aspects override the fundamental positive feelings that led to love blossoming in the first place. But, irrespective of the complications of eros, probably in all the loving relationships I’ve had, there have been times that I have not “treated the other right”—or vice versa. Doubtless I am much less aware of the times I’ve chafed, rather than the ones where I’ve felt chafed. Despite not liking any of it, I would be exceedingly naïve to think that it will ever be eliminated. We’re all individuals, after all, with unique histories and contexts and experiences and preferences.

One of the most frustrating paradoxes of love is that as one gets closer to another, the potential for being treated “wrong” grows. [Allow me a diversion to explain why I put “wrong” in quotes there, please. It encompasses more than deliberate or negligent harm ... it includes anything that is “not right”. Which is not to say that any individual’s whims should be totally, blindly acquiesced to; to me “not right” can include a lack of basic human civility or courtesy, such as respecting property rights. Or simple thoughtlessness. To take a trivial example, if one person in a household has a strong preference for a certain style of toothpaste cap and that’s been communicated to the other, if the other genuinely cares about the finicky person and has no strong feelings about toothpaste caps, what does it hurt the nonfinicky person to accommodate the finicky one’s preference? Indeed, could not that small indulgence become a powerful way of expressing love?] And, as if being treated wrong isn’t enough, as we get to know another more deeply, we tend to believe that we grok that individual—that we know why they do what they do. But the trouble is, oftentimes we attribute motives, influences, and explanations to another’s behavior that simply weren’t in play. And we commonly place ourselves at the center of their life, seeing their actions through the unremovable filter called “how-this-impacts-me”, when the simple truth is that sometimes, even for one’s best beloved, our own thoughts or feelings or needs are simply not relevant.

It is a truth that ought to be universally recognized that one person will never meet another’s needs (or desires) completely. As free individuals, shouldn’t we therefore be free to try to meet those needs ourselves, or interact with others who can help us accomplish that? If the “need” is something like an exercise partner, the question seems straightforward; but if the need under consideration is more substantive—concerning emotional or physical intimacy—for many individuals the problem instantly becomes much thornier. Speaking as someone who has participated in traditional as well as open, polyamorous relationships, having and exercising such freedom is better than not, but that doesn’t mean that it always happens easily, and without someone feeling like they were treated wrongly.

Perhaps if we lived in a society where love was cherished and respected instead of feared, so that it could be openly and freely shared among individuals without worries about misunderstandings, without expectations arising (especially between potential sexual partners), without any sort of psychologically unhealthy cruft, then maybe seeing one’s sweetie enjoying a deep friendship or sexual encounter with someone else might not be such a threatening thing. [I can’t help but cringe every time I recall my response to a man who approached me after my Freedom Summit talk a few years back ... He very earnestly took my hand in his, looked me square in the eye, and without any hint of flirtation, romance, or anything of that nature, simply said, “I love you.” I saw what was there and what wasn’t, yet such was my insecurity at hearing those words in such a context that I got quite flustered, and probably stammered out some lame response.] Or perhaps, in romantic/sexual relationships at least, contracts should be relied upon more. And I don’t mean marriage as currently practiced; I mean explicit contracts that spell out the terms of the relationship, the duration of the contract, penalties for breaking it, and terms for renewal or renegotiation once the time frame is up. ’Course, one can’t anticipate every possible future event, so even an innocuous-seeming promise might lead to problems down the line.

I used to intensely dislike that Crosby, Stills, and Nash song, Love the One You’re With, for these lines:

“If you can’t be with the one you love, honey
Love the one you’re with”

They, along with some other lines in the song, led me to focus exclusively on the sexual interpretation. As someone who has never been casual about sex, that interpretation simply didn’t—and still does not—resonate with me. Nor would I advocate ending a loving relationship, of any sort, at the first hint of not being treated right. But, as is the case with so much of our lives, most of us tend to live them not at the extremes of experience; we’re in the much murkier thicket that makes trying to cut and maintain a path between freedom and commitment much more challenging.

Early A.M. Rambles On The Subject

"Perhaps if we lived in a society where love was cherished and respected instead of feared, so that it could be openly and freely shared among individuals without worries about misunderstandings, without expectations arising (especially between potential sexual partners), without any sort of psychologically unhealthy cruft, then maybe seeing one’s sweetie enjoying a deep friendship or sexual encounter with someone else might not be such a threatening thing."

And that is exactly what I've been thinking for a number of years now. And not, as some might project, for the "sexual benefit" of that - but because I know jealousy is such a crazy emotion at times - and it amazes me observing how some even give that emotion any traction - simply by watching a lover smile at someone else and enjoy another's company for even the briefest of moments.

I used to hold the opinion that this was about "control," but now I hold that it is partly out of control, but also partly out of fear that some have and allow themselves these moments of jealousy - the fear that the other may "love someone more (which in of itself, is an admission that one can love more than one person.

I don't buy into the "different kinds of love" that psychologists and mystics often try to suggest; instead, love is love. It simply manifests itself differently at different times. Sometimes, sex is one way to manifest love - but not always. Indeed, sex is likely more a manifestation of "attraction" or something different than love - but when there is also love present during sex, perhaps it "feels" even "better" (yes, using these subjective words to try to communicate what I see as objective ideas - it's 6:30AM and I just woke up!).

I've known fathers to become jealous of their partner's attention to their children - so it's not merely a sexual thing or something that only involves adult "lovers." Heck, I've personally known some to be jealous of my passion for fly fishing, and expressing the insane worry that somehow fly fishing was more important to me than they were - merely because I chose to go fly fishing instead of attending some event with the other that I had absolutely no interest in attending.

And I realize this can work both ways, too - but if the relationship is such where there is no or little "value" to one or the other, then perhaps it is time to be objective about the relationship, appreciate the reasons for exploring and growing the relationship in the first place, appreciate what you've received from it, and then get on with it instead of spending so much time "working on it." Not to say that there aren't times when folk can get a little "miffed" with each other - but if it's at the point where there is no value being received, or like any other transaction, you're not happy and can't seem to negotiate more in return for one's own perceived value that they are "giving," then perhaps it's time to be grown ups about it.

And I don't see why this should not work with any number of adults - regardless of the relationship. I do it all the time - I'm an adult with over 2,000 relationships - all of which either give me something, or have given me something, in return I would hope for something the other valued about me.

Whether it is my children, my business associates or my fly fishing team members.

Loyalty is another idea that is also worth considering too - but even that has a price, and if you're willing to pay that price, then that is your price, and what is there to have any complaints about?

I have "loyalty" to one local corner store over another local corner store. My sense of loyalty is subjective to me, but it is what _I_ value and I don't expect anyone else to share my same value. My loyalty is such that I'm willing to walk 100 feet further, and even pay 10% more on the average purchase than visiting the other local store.

Sometimes, relationships can have that too - but what gets me, is that when some claim some sense of "loyalty" to another, and then the next moment, are complaining and making demands on the other due to their loyalty. That doesn't sound like loyalty to me - that sounds like negotiation.

My own subjectivity and objectivity doesn't provide for me to be able to understand why, if someone pisses you off so much, and one thinks they deserve more than what they are getting, why bother yelling, screaming, arguing with no end in sight to the negotiations?

Student Of All, Disciple Of None
http://ianism.com

Lots of thought-provoking ideas there ...

But for now, I’ll focus on only a few. Like this one:

... now I hold that it is partly out of control, but also partly out of fear that some have and allow themselves these moments of jealousy - the fear that the other may "love someone more (which in of itself, is an admission that one can love more than one person.

Yep. Until I realized how silly and destructive jealousy can be, fear is what drove my bouts with the green-eyed monster, much more than a desire for control. I have had my challenges in expressing love, and accepting loving feelings from others sometimes, but I don’t recall ever fearing love ... not in my adult life, anyway [discovered I’m wrong on this].

I don't buy into the "different kinds of love" that psychologists and mystics often try to suggest; instead, love is love.

Heh. I probably should’ve credited you when I wrote (and expanded upon) this idea in this year’s birthday ramble.

I've known fathers to become jealous of their partner's attention to their children - so it's not merely a sexual thing or something that only involves adult "lovers."

Yeah. (I ended up focusing too much on the sexual in this ramble, methinks.) My former husband ended up being crazy jealous over just about any aspect of my life that took my attention away from wifey/homemaker stuff. I think for him the jealousy definitely sprang from both fear and control issues. And I have certainly seen it in action between non-romantic friends, or as you described, when an individual becomes jealous of another’s choice of activity. We can be such crazy monkeys!

Loyalty is another idea that is also worth considering too ...

It’s really interesting to me that you bring this up, as I’ve been thinking about loyalty quite a lot lately. What is it, exactly? I’m leaning toward describing it as “a habit of faith in inertia or duty”—that is to say, a somewhat blind allegiance to something that may or may not currently be worthy of it. In case it isn’t clear from that, it seems to me that loyalty has a passive component; a person doesn’t think much, if at all, about a choice if one alternative has his or her loyalty. That alternative gets the nod, whether it deserves it or not, whether out of habit or a sense of obligation. So, loyalty doesn’t mean much to me ... give me someone who actively thinks about his or her thoughts and feelings with respect to me, then chooses to email me, or read my ravings here, or whatever. Or decides that something else is more worthwhile of his or her time or energy, and pursues that. I’d much rather see, and acknowledge, the spark fading (if it does) than get stuck in a routine all parties see through but can’t muster the energy to break.

A Quickie On Loyalty

"I’m leaning toward describing it as “a habit of faith in inertia or duty”—that is to say, a somewhat blind allegiance to something that may or may not currently be worthy of it."

Depends on what motivates the loyalty. When some speak of "loyalty" to country, it may be blind with some weird concept of "duty" attached.

I was thinking more about loyalty in some relationships - where it is not blind and is a conscious decision. For me, it implies going "a little further" even though there may not be any specific or immediate gains from doing so, and on the surface, may even require a cost of the person being loyal.

My example regarding the corner store: I have my motivations for being loyal to one - and even though the other is friendly towards me, and toss in some freebies sometime, for some reason or other, the one I'm feeling loyal to has motivated a "loyalty" in me to walk an extra distance and pay a little more. And through that, my relationship with that shop I'm loyal to has "deepened" in a sense - such that it would take a heck of a lot of freebies (and probably not even that would do it) for me to walk less distance and save money.

So my loyalty has somehow been motivated by something rational at one point, and it continues - without expectation of the freebies or discounts.

That corner store could lose my loyalty by some action(s) on their part I imagine, but I'm not sure what it would take.

At the same time, having that loyalty to the owners of the corner store doesn't remove any opportunity for some other relationship with the owners of the other store I'm not loyal to as far as my convenience shopping habits are concerned.

So in this regard, "loyalty" in the way I prefer to understand it, isn't about habit or obligation. It's a willingness to do something for someone(s) just because... one wants to, without expectation. But for me, it is about the "relationship," and my subjectivity upon that. If it's of value to me to go in and see Chen and Mila at the corner store, even though I'm paying a bit more, then that's what I do.

Often the problem is that some then claim they are "deserving" of something due to their loyalty.

Hmm.. perhaps "loyalty" is quite the wrong word to use to express what I mean.

Sometimes what might appear to be an objective reason for giving up a relationship and/or taking on another one IN PLACE OF, isn't strong enough for the subjective reasons that prevent that.

Student Of All, Disciple Of None
http://ianism.com

Is my difficulty with the concept contagious?

I probably should have read a dictionary definition before running at the mouth as I did ... having just looked up both “loyalty” and “loyal”, I see that a fundamental aspect of the concept is being faithful. The first two definitions of “faith” are: 1]. confidence or trust in a person or thing; and 2]. belief that is not based on proof.

Now, I have no problems with trust or confidence in a person; but, having said that, every individual I have dealt with in more than a passing way has in some manner disappointed me, or let me down. Many times that arises from my own unreasonable expectations or ideas—or, to use one of your favorite concepts, projections—and thankfully I can say that I have mostly let go of a lot of that crap ... but it still does bite me in the ass sometimes. It is a struggle not to develop any expectations, for example, or even ideas about how something might go. But other times, a person reveals him– or herself to be substantively different than my mental model predicts, and I am left at a loss: this person isn’t as I thought he or she was! How does our relationship proceed from here? It was that kind of event that was the beginning of the end of my marriage, although I stupidly didn’t realize it for years to come. Nowadays, my trust is tempered by something that I grokked long before I heard Rush sing these lyrics: “constant change is here to stay”.

This doesn’t mean that I don’t trust anyone, nor that I am a misanthropic pessimist who’d be happiest in a cave with no human contact. Far from it. What it means in my view is that I recognize both my own and every other person’s capacity to err, to—bringing this back around to the original post—not treat me right ... in other words, to just be a messy, complex, somewhat unpredictable human. It means I don’t ever start building a pedestal for anyone; and it means that when the inevitable happens, I can most often accept it with some degree of grace and move on.

One last thought from my muddled mind: although the relationships have changed profoundly, and in one case I no longer have an active relationship with the other, I still love both of my ex-partners in some ways. Is that a kind of loyalty, that I recognize some fundamental value there even though there have been a lot of painful, difficult times between us?

Loyalty and Value

"I recognize some fundamental value"

Perhaps, that is what loyalty, as you two speak of it, can mean: some fundamental value that , almost by definition, isn't immediately obvious. For instance, there is some obscure value that Ian finds in his favored corner store. The obscurity of that added value is what makes it loyalty because those outside of him can't see it. Hell, with the faithful-type loyalty, the value would still be there, but even the loyal would have trouble identifying it.

(Sorry, I couldn't properly quote the above passage.)

An interesting perspective

You may be on to something here, PintofStout. I’ll think about that.

Regarding “properly” quoting (which you did just fine, by the way), or wondering what code will work here, one can see that by clicking on the “input format” link below the comment pane. For the record, though, it’s “blockquote”.

Possibly Related

"I probably should have read a dictionary definition before running at the mouth as I did ... having just looked up both “loyalty” and “loyal”, I see that a fundamental aspect of the concept is being faithful. The first two definitions of “faith” are: 1]. confidence or trust in a person or thing; and 2]. belief that is not based on proof."

Possibly related, but not quite what I mean by "loyalty." My loyalty to the one shop owners has more to do with my "liking" or something of them - even if they don't always do me favours. It's my own subjective thoughts that motivate me to walk an extra 100 feet and pay 10% more when a totally objective point of view simply based on cost and time efficiency would suggest that my actions when being loyal are irrational.

There is no expectation of any economic or time trade that can be objectively measured. The shop owners sometimes "reward" me economically by giving me something free - usually to give to my "wee man," but I don't have an expectation of that. So, perhaps they are rewarding my loyalty :).

"Now, I have no problems with trust or confidence in a person; but, having said that, every individual I have dealt with in more than a passing way has in some manner disappointed me, or let me down. Many times that arises from my own unreasonable expectations or ideas—or, to use one of your favorite concepts, projections—and thankfully I can say that I have mostly let go of a lot of that crap"

Well, what assisted me with this was the realization that I am fully responsible for my thoughts - and that includes my expectations. I still have expectations - but I am also responsible for my reactions to feeling let down. I now try to view such incidents as merely "information." Information that in the future, I can base new decisions on, if depending on at the time, how I choose to value that information along with any "risk" I am prepared to take on. There is no such thing as zero risk with anything - whether it is an investment in a business or an investment with expectations in people.

I can be disappointed, but I don't have to allow myself the energy sapping negative emotions if I don't want to. I may at times, even reduce my expectations because on some other level, I still value something about the person, and I realize that my disappointment in some action or inaction is not really that important to what I value.

What I find it comes down to is taking responsibility for my own emotions, including my responses. I own them.

"It is a struggle not to develop any expectations, for example, or even ideas about how something might go."

But why try to "not" develop expectations? One can have expectations, but being realistic, also realize those expectations may possibly not be met. I think we all do things, every activity we carry out has some level of some sort of "expectation" along with it. Setting out on a long road trip carries with it an expectation we'll arrive at our destination - but the car could break down - which may or may not have been under our control. If we drove a car knowing the fan belt could go at any minute, and we don't fix it, it would be unrealistic for us to expect that it will hold out another 40,000 miles.

At the same time, there could be a major accident closing the roads along our route - we can't control that, but our "expectations" have now not been met. Frustrating? Yes. But the more we deal with the side of us that wants is "frustrated," the more we miss out on the opportunities that have now been created. Maybe even getting some rest!

Indeed, when things don't go as we might "expect," it's information and new knowledge to assist with how we think about things, and what we might need to do differently next time - even within ourselves or our own actions, ie the car example - getting the fan belt fixed if it's showing wear next time we take a long road trip.

"This doesn’t mean that I don’t trust anyone, nor that I am a misanthropic pessimist who’d be happiest in a cave with no human contact. Far from it. What it means in my view is that I recognize both my own and every other person’s capacity to err, to—bringing this back around to the original post—not treat me right ... in other words, to just be a messy, complex, somewhat unpredictable human."

That's information.

There are probably at least two parts to the "not treat me right" view.

1. We expected chocolates but got kraft dinner. Why did we expect that? Was there a promise for Chocolate? Did something occur that the other person could only deliver Kraft dinner?

We would probably deal with that sort of thing differently than:

2. The other person slaps on physically in the face/lies to us/makes promises to us but they are never kept...etc etc.

That's information as well. We may not expect for any of #2 to have occurred, but knowing we can't control what another person does/says/thinks, we can now only act on the information we now have that we didn't have previously.

Is this "easy?" Nope. But life never was supposed to be easy. We can't guarantee - and no one can ever guarantee absolutely, "You won't be disappointed." The person doing that sort of guaranteeing and anyone who believes is naive. I could guarantee that you if you ARE disappointed, I'll refund my money to you - but I can't guarantee that you'll be happy with the colour of the carpet once it's laying on your floor.

"Satisfaction guaranteed" to me doesn't guarantee satisfaction. It means I'll be able to get my money back if I'm not satisfied.

Of course, dynamic relationships don't work that way - but I use the example in regard to expectations - and that expectations are the stuff of goals - but sometimes, we need to adjust our goals or activities to achieve the goal with new information we did not have even ten minutes earlier.

"But other times, a person reveals him– or herself to be substantively different than my mental model predicts, and I am left at a loss: this person isn’t as I thought he or she was! How does our relationship proceed from here?"

Well, our mental models may be wrong - not because we are wrong - but because of the information we have to work with in the first place. If a person reveals something different - well, by it's very nature - something different - is some new information you did not have before that was not revealed to you. (Sometimes, it seems to me, that often we're just blinded though and don't LOOK at what is there in front of our eyes).

How the relationship proceeds depends on your own thoughts and values at the time. This new information - how important is it to you to make changes? Are you willing to make the changes if it is actually important for you to do so? Perhaps the relationship doesn't "proceed," but simply - changes.

"One last thought from my muddled mind: although the relationships have changed profoundly, and in one case I no longer have an active relationship with the other, I still love both of my ex-partners in some ways. Is that a kind of loyalty, that I recognize some fundamental value there even though there have been a lot of painful, difficult times between us?"

I don't know if that is "loyalty" in the sense I meant it in the example above. Love can be love without it having to be anything else. Right this minute, at least 20 individuals come to mind when I think of who I love. One is my long term male friend with whom I have shared almost every Opening Day fishing with, since we were 16 years old - 22 years ago.

I have never slept with him, and I predict I never will.

I also love my ex-wife as well.

I also love my three teenagers and my "wee man" who is 5.

How that all is manifested depends on many things, that are both objective and then subjective that I only own within my own mind.

For example, if I were to make out a will right now, I'd probably leave a greater portion to the youngest son - not because I love him more, but because from my own thinking, he is less capable of looking after himself and therefore requires more funds than my older son as far as capabilities are concerned.

My efforts that I might put into a relationship or loved one at any given time is not necessarily an indication of the "amount" or "depth" of love, if it were to be measured but rather are based on my own ideas that I've thought of how best to divide those up. I've not always made the right decision when I look back and look at some of the decisions I've made, but making wrong decisions and then realizing that is... well.. information for me! :)

Some might even confuse "value" for others by the way one might allocate resources towards those they love - some might try to suggest I "value" my youngest if I were to leave more to him in my will - when in fact, nothing could be further from the truth. I value all of my sons - I'm not sure how I could even try to divvy up "value" among them.

Having said that, there could be some I love that I actually DO value more than others I love - but that doesn't mean I don't love the ones I might have some lesser personal value upon.

And sometimes, I could value myself and my own actions even more - such that I need to spend some time on something other than someone I love, in order to have any ideas of reality about doing some activities with them in the future that we both might want to do together.

Ok.. some rambling thoughts.. but a good excercise for me to try to write them out as it's been something I've been thinking about and trying to work out in my own head the past couple of weeks!

Now I need to get some work done :)

Student Of All, Disciple Of None
http://ianism.com

Another schmrtlef!

My tiny reptilian brain is reeling anew this morning, but I’ll try to address at least a few points you made, Ian.

I think we agree that sometimes, loyalty is not rational. And to me that seems an inherent part of the concept.

... what assisted me with this was the realization that I am fully responsible for my thoughts - and that includes my expectations. I still have expectations - but I am also responsible for my reactions to feeling let down. I now try to view such incidents as merely "information."

[Nodding] I think our perspectives aren’t as far apart on this as my words might have suggested.

But why try to "not" develop expectations? One can have expectations, but being realistic, also realize those expectations may possibly not be met.

Because I don’t like pain, even though I realize it is inevitable, and highly informative. There’s a lot of personal history packed in here, and I think it’s much too early to spin soporifics, so I’ll just say that I think my passionate nature has too often helped me build wild expectations on very rickety foundations ... so I try to keep that in tight check. Same with mental models, although those are much more difficult to handle.

Again, I think our disagreement (to whatever degree that term might be accurate) is mostly verbal; all the things you’re saying about expectations and information are very familiar to me.

We can't guarantee - and no one can ever guarantee absolutely, "You won't be disappointed." The person doing that sort of guaranteeing and anyone who believes is naive. I could guarantee that you if you ARE disappointed, I'll refund my money to you - but I can't guarantee that you'll be happy with the colour of the carpet once it's laying on your floor.

Very well put.

Well, our mental models may be wrong - not because we are wrong - but because of the information we have to work with in the first place. .... (Sometimes, it seems to me, that often we're just blinded though and don't LOOK at what is there in front of our eyes).

Gads, yes.

I value all of my sons - I'm not sure how I could even try to divvy up "value" among them.

Having said that, there could be some I love that I actually DO value more than others I love - but that doesn't mean I don't love the ones I might have some lesser personal value upon.

Seems to me it could also be “value in different ways than others”, too. Even though I have loved my ex husband, Lobo, and now MAL in very similar ways, their current values to me are quite different (especially the former hubby, not surprisingly).

And sometimes, I could value myself and my own actions even more -

I would think of someone who couldn’t do this—or who wouldn’t make that choice—as being at least a little psychologically unhealthy.

OK...

Enough thinking for me on this subject for now :) But...

"Because I don’t like pain, even though I realize it is inevitable, and highly informative."

I don't like pain either. But for me personally, and it IS ONLY MY experience, and I can't say for others - I began to suffer much less of what I had called "emotional pain" when I was able to point to reality, and differentiate between physical pain and emotional pain, and then learn to realize I was responsible for my own emotions and reactions.

Not to say I still don't have "pain" emotionally, for a number of different motivations - when I see my older son doing very unwise things at times, yes - that gives me pain. But I accept that pain and also can focus on what I gain and enjoy about my older son too.

Romantic interests I've found the same way of "dealing" with it. Yes, sometimes there is "pain." But on the other hand, something very beautiful must have also occurred. So I focus on being thankful for that, rather than any pain I might feel if I decide to wallow.

Doesn't always work out 100% - and it's not just "romantic interests" either where "pain" occurs - but regardless - the same principle apples, for me.

Student Of All, Disciple Of None
http://ianism.com

One last clarification

I cannot take issue with anything you’ve said. But I’d like to state more explicitly what I meant by my statement about not liking pain. It has been my experience that when I allow my expectations regarding others’ ways of being to rise “too high”, I am often more disappointed and hurt. By keeping expectations low, the pain—if it comes—is similarly minimized. Even better, I am frequently very pleasantly surprised. I like that lots more ... and happily, have experienced a lot of it lately.

Sunni how I have missed your

Sunni how I have missed your writing! This one in particular resonates with me. One thought on reading it is the necessity that my love be reality based, and how sometimes I forget that. Reality can't be ignored. My woman will be imperfect, and quite likely refuse to live according to my needs :) I am similarly challenged. I find myself at long last single again, with my loving relationships centered around the little ones (shared custody accomplished!), and I do have some trepidation at entering into a new relationship, the last being so painful to exit.

Love the new site design etc.

regards
John Newnham

Likewise, my friend!

John, I’ve missed you too! Welcome back ... and you have my empathy over your recent challenges. I hope to hear more from you at your place soon.