Why I “Remember, Remember”

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Several days ago, Wendy McElroy mused about a Libertarian Fixation on Guy Fawkes?, with which I empathized to some degree.

She wrote, in part:

I don't get it. So Guy Fawkes was used as a role model in a comic book (actually a wonderful graphic novel V for Vendetta that was trashed by its movie adaptation)...does that make him a libertarian ideal? There was nothing libertarian about Fawkes. He was a Catholic crusader who wanted to blow up Parliament as part-and-parcel of removing a Protestant monarch from power. He wasn't against government or tyranny; he was against one form of government that he wanted to replace with another form he liked better: a Catholic one.

I didn’t know much, if anything, about Fawkes before reading V for Vendetta, and as I recall Fawkes’ religious motivation wasn’t emphasized in it. And to be honest, for me that still isn’t an important element in the legend. The reason I “remember, remember” is because Guy Fawkes was a singular individual, then as well as now: he was a person of action. Instead of whining about the political problems he saw in his day, instead of simply bowing his head and living under intolerable conditions, he devised a plan and then actually attempted to execute it. Unlike the ostensible focus of the movie, I am more interested in the idea—that being resisting tyranny—than the man himself. It is also somewhat amusing to me that Fawkes has probably become a legend largely because of the crackpot tinge to his plan ... certainly something today’s genuinely pro-freedom individuals can relate to, as we’re considered the mental ones in the era of state-above-all.

I daresay Uncle Warren shares this selective, anti-state focus with me, which is why his newest podcast, UWA 42: Remember, Remember, garnered this response from me: “Bloody brilliant!”

Fawkes was all that

But I have to plug an American version, who is still reviled as a religious fanatic, even though those who wrote and talked to him during his trial and imprisonment found him quite sane.

But see, John Brown had to be a madman. The alternative was there was no religious justification for slavery. And we couldn't have that.

He was hung on December 2nd.

Give us more fanatics!

Thank you, NeoWayland, for helping me fill in my woeful history knowledge. Some quick searching turned up a few interesting pages, including this essay, John Brown: Madman or Martyr?. I think I’ll read it to the snolfs on 12/2.

My pleasure, Sunni

That's a good essay to start with.

I'd like to toss out another point just to think about.

Historicially, very few revolutionaries have moved successfully into leadership roles after the revolution and survived.

Perhaps the mindset needed for creating radical change doesn't fit without a dragon.

Well, there’s two ways to

Well, there’s two ways to look at this, Sunni.

One way: Yes, you’re right... Fawkes was an individual protesting for his particular cause – and that’s good anytime a person undertakes to state his case against the tyranny of an institution.

However, the second way says: if we ignore the cause or principle involved in an action in order to celebrate the action itself (or if we ignore the action in order to draw attention to the cause or principle – /a la/ Ron Paul), we may well end up compromising the principle or slip-sliding down the slope into no principle (/a la/ the Libertarian Party).

Is it really individual vs. principle?

I remain singularly uninterested in battles waged over religion, but a Harper’s article published today, Happy Counterterrorism Day, offers some insights that bear on your point. A taste:

Once Fawkes was a symbol of the traitor within. The people were called to be on guard against his like. No longer. Today Guy Fawkes is increasingly viewed as the heroic figure prepared to stand against an unjust and oppressive state, as a martyr and a victim of torture. What are the lessons of Guy Fawkes Day for 2007? I propose three: ....

The lessons proposed seem quite solid to me, but again, I have no historic perspective from which to judge them. Are you suggesting that it is somehow wrong for an anarchist to find inspiration in someone who attempts to unseat a despotic government?

Not at all. And I rather

Not at all. And I rather like the history of Guy Fawkes myself; I understand the enthusiasm from an anarchist POV.

But I am suggesting that many people tend to get caught up in the celebration of something and allow it to pull them along in another direction over time. This has happened with some people re Guy Fawkes (the same as it’s happened with some fans of Ron Paul and the LP). They focus on the act or cause of someone else, ignoring or forgetting that the goal of the other person is not their own.

In Fawkes’ case, the process of transference has come to mean that blowing up Parliament *for its own sake* is correct, whereas in fact, it was only correct for Fawkes at that time.
I think a libertarian of ZAP persuasion today (or in 1605, if there was a libertarian around) would find better, more effective ways to monkeywrench, and a better person than Fawkes to celebrate. After all, we don’t all approve of PETA’s or pro/con-abortionists’ tactics no matter what we think of animal or abortion rights. If the tactics are wrong, so is the person engaging in them.
What’s the difference – except that Guy Fawkes is OUR cause?

Just another way of looking at Guy Fawkes Day.

Ah, okay

Thanks for the clarification. I think I understand your point now; and it is one that is worth bringing up. Regarding finding a “better person than Fawkes to celebrate”, I believe NeoWayland has already pointed out one, just above here ...

Gunpowder Revolution

As I read on Wikipedia on Thursday, Fawkes was enlisted because he was an explosives expert in the military. He obviously was sympathetic to the plot and it's motives, but he definitely was not alone.

With the kind of religion-based oppression that was common of this period, which spilled over into Ireland having lasting effect, it was easy to find the better solution in simply switching polarity of rulers. As I have tried to elaborate in a few older blog entries, I prefer to use the word rebellion rather than revolution, since one implies resistance while the other implies ending up in the same spot as before.

V Protest NHunderground

Some of us folks affiliated with NHfree.com and the Free State Project had our version of the 5th of November at the jail in Manchester New Hampshire in support of Lauren Canario. Lauren has served 35 days and won't cooperate with the system... this time the windmill she is tilting at is the drivers license of which she has none. Today they are going through the motions of pretending to give her due process.

One of the charges is contempt of court for not speaking, they could hold her indefinitely. So much for the right to remain silent.

Free Lauren Canario web site

V Protest NHunderground, part 2

Two more YouTube links related to the protest:

Arrest video

Previous mute encounter with NH State Police, kind of funny his reactions.

[Edited by Sunni to get all the information out under the requirements of our Drupal software]

Thanks, W.D.

Thank you for posting this, William’s Dad. Can Lauren receive mail while there, and if so, will you post the address please?

Lauren is Free

Good news Lauren was let out. A great birthday present for her husband Jim.

You can listen to her from last nights Free Talk Live [MP3 file].

[Edited by Sunni for clarity and to pass the spam filter]

Thanks Sunni/Lauren is Free

I messed up posting and got bumped for spamming when I tried to edit it.

That's what happens when you have a 6 year old bugging you to feed him.

Good news Lauren was let out. A great birthday present for her husband Jim.

Some cartoons from over at

Lauren Canario cartoon from Anarchy in Your Head

Life in prison for remaining silent cartoon from Anarchy in Your Head

[Edited by Sunni to pass the spam filter]

Good news for her!

I’m glad to hear she’s out, W.D. And for future reference ... at least until I write up the rules of this place (such as they are), three or more URLs and/or hotlinks will cause a comment to be rejected as spam. I don’t mind more comments in order to post all you want to share, okay? (If you want to hotlink to images, please do fill in the height and width parameters, as that makes the page load much faster. Thanks!)

Thanx for linking my site

I just discovered this website after a notification that you linked to my site and I just wanted to thank you for that. I see I'm not the only Free Stater to have posted here!

Anarchy In Your Head . COM

[Edited by Sunni to point to a graphic]

Follow up video

Free Lauren Canario video

Video featuring pumpkin art display created by Menno... outreach at the Keene Pumpkin Festival.
Free Lauren V protest at the jail... candles, V masks and radicals in the dark.
Interview with Lauren... Why did she do it?

Er, missing link?

Thanks again, W.D. Was there supposed to be a link to an interview in there?