Even though I've made bread most of my life, I had a challenge learning how to adapt to a much higher elevation than I was used to. I was having consistent problems with over rising, rising too fast, and large airholes in the bread because of it. I tried lots of things, from reducing the yeast to reducing the temperature, but I couldn't get the slow, steady rise that makes for smooth texture and easy slicing... until now.
I started to get the right idea when I was first making sourdough bread earlier this month. Each batch came out with the wonderful smooth, fine grained texture I'd been looking for after rising a lot more slowly. Aside from the fermentation, the only real difference in the recipes was the amount of salt.
So, the last two batches of ordinary wheat bread were made with an extra 1/4 tsp. salt per 2 lb loaf. Perfect!! Slower rising and smooth, fine texture.
Mama's favorite potato bread (2 very large or three medium loaves)
Boil 3 - 4 medium potatoes, peeled and diced. (Red potatoes are WONDERFUL.. leave a little skin on for color)
Drain very dry, SAVE THE WATER! Mash potatoes without liquid or butter/salt.
Measure potatoes and water called for into a large bowl, then use stick blender to cream together. Or put in a regular blender, but you'll lose some volume unless you hold back some of the water to rinse the blender jar with.
Ingredients:
Potato water - 1 1/2 cup (add warm plain water if there is not enough from potatos)
Butter or lard - 6 Tbsp. (melted and warm)
Egg - 2 large
Mashed potato - 1 cup (I cheat and use a bit more sometimes... doesn't hurt)
Sugar - 4 Tbsp
Salt - 2 1/2 tsp. (original recipe calls for 2 tsp. If your bread is coarse and full of holes, you might want to try this anyway.)
Whole wheat flour - 3 cups (I use the white wheat)
White bread or all purpose flour - 3 cups (If you mix by hand, you'll need another 1/2 cup or so in order to knead the dough without sticking.)
Guar gum - 1 tsp
Rapid rise yeast - 4 tsp
Put all the wet ingredients into the bread maker pan, then add the dry stuff with the yeast last on top. Set machine for dough only. Allow it to mix and knead until it stops to rise. Do NOT let it rise in the machine! It will go everywhere like the blob from the old movie! LOL
Unless you have a bread maker big enough to hold this much, this is the time to transfer the dough to a big glass bowl that has been greased. Cover and allow to rise until double in a warm place out of a draft. Takes about 30 minutes. Punch it down, turn it over and let it rise again. Usually about 20 minutes for the second rise. Punch it again, cut in two or three parts and form loaves. Place in greased loaf pans, then set them to rise one more time, well covered. This usually takes another 20 minutes. You want to have the oven HOT by this time. Don't let them rise too much before starting to bake, because they will continue to rise a bit after they go into the oven, so if the oven isn't really HOT yet, this is where the big air holes in the top of the crust come from. I preheat the oven to 350 degrees, put in the bread quickly and bake for 25 - 30 minutes.
Be sure that the shelf in the oven is low so that the TOP of the risen loaf is at the middle point between the top and bottom of the whole oven. This is especially important for an electric oven, since the element on top will burn the top crust if it's too close.
Turn the loaves gently out onto a wire rack, on their sides, to cool. If you are like most folks, you love the hot bread. It won't slice well, and it may pack down some when you try, but it's just about the closest thing to food heaven as I ever expect to get. :) I used to make several small loaves (small nut bread pans work great) for my children so they could have their own hot loaf and all the butter they wanted. They loved the crust, so this was perfect.
I have at least 3 large books full of bread, bagel and other such recipes. I'll add my favorites as time goes by. :)
On yeastie-beasties
As the snolfs like to call them ... It seems to me that rapid-rising yeast, while speeding the rise times for baked goods, comes with the price of some loss of flavor. For that reason I very rarely use it. I use regular yeast and allow extra rising time for recipes that specify rapid-rise yeast; that seems to work well.
Anybody have experiences similar to mine? Do you find flavor/texture differences among brands of yeast?
And last, sourdough: we’re sourdough lovers here, and I’ve been considering trying my hand at that bread. Any information on creating a good-quality starter (or buying one if such are available) would be much appreciated.
Beasties and sourdough
Well, it's been a long time since I used anything but the rapid rise type, and I've got 20 pounds of it on hand so it will be a while before I buy anything else... but I can't remember any difference in the TASTE when I did use the old fashioned stuff. All I can remember is that it took a LONG time for some stuff to rise, and if the temp wasn't just right, sometimes it never did!! The old yeast "cakes" were especially fussy, and didn't keep long.
Now, for sourdough. I have two different recipes for the starter. The directions are pretty much the same for both.
Here's my "starter" recipe:
2 cups warm milk, 2 cups bread flour (or unbleached flour - no whole wheat yet) and 2 1/2 tsp. yeast
(An alternate recipe calls for water and flour as above, but add 3 Tbsp sugar. Everything else is the same.)
mix with egg beater or elect. mixer on low until well blended. Cover with a cloth and let stand in a warm place for 4 to 7 days, gently stirring it once a day. If you don't use a big enough container, it may bubble over! If liquid forms on top, just stir it in. When it is as "sour" as you like, refrigerate. I like to make my first batch of bread at this point, then pour the rest of the starter into 1 cup freezer containers and freeze. When you are ready to make bread, remove from freezer and allow to thaw on the counter. Pour into a bowl and feed it with enough flour and liquid to make up the amount called for in the recipe. I usually do this the day before and leave it out overnight.
I don't make sourdough often, so this makes subsequent batches very easy. A cup of starter also makes a neat gift sometimes, especially for new neighbors. I've typed up the directions for feeding the starter along with some of my recipes for bread, and usually give these with at least one sample of the finished product. Boy, oh boy, do new neighbors love that!
Hints for feeding starter:
Feed the batch after using starter. If you use one cup of starter, add 1 cup liquid and 1 cup flour
Always use the same kind of flour.
Alternate between milk and water. If you forget, it's no big deal, but try to alternate. (If the dough is getting too sour, use water more often than milk. If it's not sour enough, use milk more often.)
Let it sit at room temp for about 24 hours, then refrigerate.
If you use the starter frequently and/or it is very active and strong, you may need to adjust the amount of yeast called for in the actual bread recipe. Just experiment. You may be able to eliminate the yeast if the bread is rising too fast and has large holes in it.
Some of my recipes, adapted from ethnic recipes, call for quite a bit of salt. I like it that way, but some do not or have restrictions. If you reduce the salt called for, use at least 1 tsp per large loaf made to balance the yeast action.
Ok, first recipe:
San Francisco type (Adjust consistency with milk while dough is mixing)
starter - 1 1/3 cups
butter or lard - 2 Tbsp.
sugar - 2 1/2 Tbsp.
salt - 1 1/2 tsp.
unbleached flour or bread flour - 3 1/2 cups
yeast - 2 tsp.
milk (scalded) - 1/4 - 3/4 cup (or use water and dry milk powder)
Hint: If breadmaker seems to be thumping and working too hard, dough needs more liquid. If it sounds sloppy and slurpy, it needs a bit more flour. Anything in between will probably work fine! Smiley
Sourdough French type bread
starter - 1 1/3 cup
sugar - 2 Tbsp.
salt - 1 tsp.
unbleached flour - 4 cups
yeast - 2 tsp.
water - 2/3 - 3/4 cup
For sourdough pizza crust, use recipe above but omit sugar and add 3 Tbsp. olive oil. Allow to rise once, punch down and then roll out crust to desired thickness, add toppings immediately and bake in hot oven.
Whole Wheat sourdough (Ok, NOW you can haul out the whole wheat!)
starter - 1 1/2 cup
butter or lard - 2 1/2 Tbsp.
sugar - 2 1/2 Tbsp.
salt - 1 1/2 tsp.
whole wheat flour - 1 1/2 cup
unbleached flour - 2 1/2 cups
yeast - 2 tsp.
milk (scalded) - 1/4 to 3/4 cup
More when I quit drooling...
LaBrea(d)
Years ago I was really into breadmaking. I gave it up at some point, partially as a result of realizing that all of that processed flour is less than an optimal thing for my insulin and immune and other bodily systems. But that's another story. There is NOTHING better than a great loaf of bread fresh from the oven.
At any rate, I happened to run across a book by the woman who created the LaBrea bakery in L.A. It is all about sour-dough bread, and she approaches it from several angles. I cannot imagine a better place to do research on any aspect of sour-dough bread than her book for anyone who cares.
It was called "Breads from the LaBrea Bakery" and is apparently no longer available, but the author is Nancy Silverton and seems to have other works out there.
- NonE (dreaming of bread now...)
other kinds?
Mama Liberty,
I had Buffalo Stew by the Crazy Horse monument recently. It was devine and came with a few disks of Indian fry bread. Do you happen to know how to make those?
Oh, you were so close!!!
I'm only about 60 miles from that Crazy Horse monument. :)
Anyway, yes, indian fry bread is easy to make. Actually, almost any dough will work, and you can buy special fry bread mixes if you like that have some (very little) of the genuine Prairie turnip (Timpsula - Psoralea esculenta) the plains indians used in the bread they made.
The mix makes a regular biscuit dough so you can use any baking powder biscuit mix or recipe. Roll out about pancake thickness and cut into wedges or other shapes to suit you. They need to be fairly thin and the same thickness throughout or they won't cook evenly. Too thick and they will take too long and soak up too much oil. Too thin and they become very crisp.
I much prefer to use a plain soft yeast bread dough, rolled and cut as above.
Heat at least 1 inch of cooking oil or fat to 375 degrees in a deep frying pan or deep fryer. Drop pieces of dough into the fat and cook until golden tan on both sides. Remove with slotted tool and drain on paper towels. The oil or fat can be used many times.
Pitza Frit
My ex-wife was of Sicilian extraction, and her mother made something on Saturday mornings that was to die for. She called it Pizza Freet (spelling it phonetically) and was simply Italian bread dough (which she bought at the market) which was pulled and torn into small clumps about the size of a hamburger bun but much thinner. These she would pan fry in olive oil and then sprinkle with salt.
Oh, mama, did I love Saturday's at their house!
- NonE
That's Why European's Measure By Weight
Even though I've made bread most of my life, I had a challenge learning how to adapt to a much higher elevation than I was used to. I was having consistent problems with over rising, rising too fast, and large airholes in the bread because of it. I tried lots of things, from reducing the yeast to reducing the temperature, but I couldn't get the slow, steady rise that makes for smooth texture and easy slicing... until now.
The difference in elevation is why alot of Europeans measure by weight rather than by volume. Seems measuring by weight takes elevation in account.
The height diet.
No wonder I always weigh 15 pounds less in Tucson than in Flagstaff. (Or does it work the other way around, in which case I'm REALLY confused?)
- NonE
It has other benefits too
It helps account for the moisture content of the flour, for starters. And probably other things, but I have dinner going, dessert in one oven, and two loaves of bread in the second oven, so I need to slither back to the kitchen!
moisture
Doesn't moisture affect the weight? If measuring by weight would you not have to worry about those conditions (elevation, moisture)? Just kinda wondering
Yes.
“Wetter” flour would be heavier, so there would be less of it by volume. I’ve done some cooking measuring by weight, and it really is no different from volume measuring in a sense. For fiddly recipes, such as breads and pastries, it can reduce the amount of tweaking (whether to add more flour or not, etc.), but it may not eliminate it. That’s one reason why I cook by feel, as well as by sight and taste: it helps ensure consistent results.
I suppose
I suppose that would work too, but don't see the need to get that picky. The whole process is actually quite flexible, as evidenced by the fact that my measurement of mashed potato isn't exact by any means. If I have an extra 1/4 cup or so I either add it or just eat it! :) Seems to make no difference I can see. I always have to adjust the flour or liquid a bit to make the right consistency of dough, but those little bits more or less don't seem to matter to the yeast or anything else.
Making bread is at least half art. The science accounts for only half of the process. :) I enjoy the art half!
More bread recipes
I was thinking about the indian fry bread last night, and took down one of my books to look at other unusual breads. Boy, was that a mistake!!
Decisions, decisions. Luckily, I'll always need bread and I've probably got another 20 years to play with this...
Anyway, here is the next one I'm going to try. I used to make it years ago, with a different recipe. This one sounds better.
Pita Bread (Makes 10)
water - 1 1/3 cups
oil - 3 Tbsp. (calls for olive oil, but I may use grapeseed)
sugar - 1 1/2 Tbsp
all purpose flour - 2 cups
whole wheat flour - 1 1/2 cups
yeast - 2 tsp
Mix and knead as for any bread recipe. Roll dough into a long rope and cut into 10 pieces. Roll them into a ball, then flatten into a disk (about pancake thickness). Place on a greased baking sheet and let rise about 20 minutes. Bake in preheated oven at 500 degrees for 8 to 10 minutes. Transfer to a rack to cool. Don't cut them until you are ready to use them.
I intend to work with this recipe and see how it might adapt to sprouted wheat or other grains.
Sprouted Wheat or other...
I don't know if anyone here is familiar with the research of Weston A. Price, but it is quite interesting. Sally Fallon has created a website to spread knowledge on this research and to continue on where Price left off. One of the many things he discovered was the idea of "anti-nutrients," the chemicals which naturally occur in seeds which prevent digestion, thus enhancing the ability of a seed to remain viable for years until the proper conditions for sprouting occur. This explains or confirms the thinking behind "sprouted" grains as being healthier. In the process of sprouting, the "anti-nutrients" ( a catch-all phrase designed to cover several different chemicals which all have the same evolutionary effect) are neutralized and thus render the nutrition contained within the seeds to become bio-available.
There's LOTS more than that, but that will give you a taste. I highly recommend the site for those who seek to increase their health via nutritional knowledge and understanding.
Weston A. Price Foundation website
- NonE
Heh.
Just a few of us ... a link really should be in the sidebar. I’ll add it next week, unless you want to do it, NonE.
Cain't figger it out.
Sorry, Sunni. I've poked and prodded but have failed to find the magic phrase that will unlock the doors to new-link-in-the-sidebar placement.
- NonE
Probably an admin thing, then.
Probably an admin thing, then. I’ll see to it soon as I can—the snolfs are pulling at me already for Halloween fun!
Grandma wants pictures!!!!
I still look at and enjoy the photos of snolf Halloween from years past. Please don't forget to take pictures this time. :)
I'll look at your link, NonE and get back with comments later.
Mission accomplished.
The snolfs had fun, and I did take some pictures, which Lobo will probably send along after the weekend.
Thank YOU!
Can't wait to see them. :) I need to find a happy dancing gradma emoticon. LOL
Very interesting.
I looked at a lot of that website, NonE, and found some very interesting information. I don't buy all of it, of course, but will add it to my resources. Thanks!!
Forgot to start the wheat sprouting, so this next batch of bread will have to be plain whole wheat and flax meal. I like that too once in a while. Will start the sprouts in time for the next batch. :) I like to let them get a little green and do not put them in a dark place.
I'm looking for a source of untreated radish, cabbage and broccoli seeds for sprouting. I like them mixed with alfalfa sprouts for salads and sandwiches. I use sprouts especially in the winter when salad veggies are too expensive, though I'm growing some in the bathroom with the orchids just now.
Sprouted Wheat
Mama,
My experience with sprouting wheat for making flour for making bread was interesting. I found that I would leave the wheat in water (moist) just long enough (I thought) for it to start the sprouting process, then I would dry it (this is what is called "malt" by the way), then grind it into flour and proceed as usual. BUT, what I found was that the malt flour would be very sweet and sticky, kinda like it almost had honey mixed in with it, and the grinding and bread making was difficult. I didn't do a whole lot of experimentation with this, but I'm just offering up what I learned in case it may be of value to you. I would suggest to "sprout" the wheat for a time shorter than it takes for you to actually see any change. If you see the little green sprout coming out of the seed, you've let it go too far, I think. Figure out how long it takes for you to see the sprout and then cut that in half or something, and try it and see if that will work for you. What you want is for the "anti-nutrients" to become deactivated, but you don't want a whole lot of change to have gone on otherwise.
I hope I've confused the hell out of you with all that.
By the way, I remember reading somewhere that while most sprouts are really healthy for you, alfalfa sprouts are not. (Which is strange as they are the ones you see most in your general grocery store...) I wish I could give you a reference on that, but I don't remember.
- NonE (spreading ignorance and bias everywhere he goes...)
W.A. Price took time.
By the way, as a vegan (who chooses not to eat animal products for the ethical reason that I don't think it is polite to kill others) I had a real hard time with Weston A. Price Foundation's position on soy, as I had made soy products a primary component of my diet for years. And naturally the idea of all of the animal products was repulsive to me, so... it took me at least a couple of years before I finally started to come to believe that there was a great deal of nutritional truth in his studies. I am still appalled at the idea of eating animals, but I have started once again to eat eggs, "X-factor" butter, and cod liver oil because I am finally convinced that there are certain animal stuffs that are indispensable to good human health. So I'm not really a vegan anymore, but as close as I can be to one and still think that I'm not harming myself.
Sally Fallon has done some talks which are really good, and Price's book appears to be as well. There is just so much information there to be had, and so much of it flies directly in the face of what we commonly accept as good nutrition, that I can't imagine anyone accepting it right off.
But it seems that the more I study the material and think about it and all, the more I can see where it does make nutritional sense (if not ethical), and as soon as I started eating the "X-factor" butter, a skin problem I'd been having for a couple of years that I had "tried everything" to get rid of... went away. Poof. Anecdotal, for sure. But that's just my experience.
- NonE
P.S. Please don't think I'm putting down others for their choice to eat animal products. I honestly can't say where it is that the line should be drawn. I know that all "higher" living beings must eat "lower ones" to survive, so you have to draw an arbitrary line somewhere. I have mine where it is at the moment, but where you draw yours may be as valid or maybe moreso than mine. (and I REALLY miss southern pork bar-b-que!!!)
Sprouting seed source
I have purchased sprouting seed from these folks:
The Sprout People
They carry every variety I've heard of people eating, and offer the choice of organic when they can find such.
Thanks!
Very interesting site, but I'm afraid the prices are simply off planet for me right now. And I wouldn't go through a whole pound of seed in several years.
I've done quite a bit of raising my own seed for some things in the past, and will probably go back to doing that. And there are some things mentioned there that I never heard of for sprouts.
Heck, if I could get even a fraction of that price, I'd sell some if I had extra. Very interesting idea!
Sprouts, yum!
I think Skeptical Man recommended Sprout People to me, too; a whirl by the site confirmed that I’ve been a happy customer of theirs. As I recall, we tried a couple of samplers, and enjoyed all that we tried. All this reminds me to start sprouting here. Thanks, S.M.!